Curse

Thevil King · May 04, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by spun ducky

EULA's can't be enforced in almost all situations and also in a lot of places the EULA is not a legal binding contract that is honored. It's purpose is not to tell the player what they can and can't do but basically protect the developer from any legal claims.

So to sum it up the EULA isn't worth the bits its made of when it comes to enforcing 'Rules' and the game companies know it. Why do you think they rather just ban/suspend an account rather than sue the pants off a person in violation?

they are not the same, nor was it ever said that they are. but the logic taken from this analogy is exactly the same. namely incentives/consequences for different actions, for example reward and punishment, etc.

sixdartbart · May 04, 2010, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

As long as you have free to play no monthly fee games you will have this kind of riff raff and in hordes just like it is now. Start charging and these botters will disappear rapidly because it eats into their profits.

Actually it's much worse in P2P games.
People were running the AoCbuddy cheat program within days of AoC being released, Failcom did little to nothing about it and it tanked what should have been a great game within a few months and now most of the very few remaining players are mearly the cheating punks that ruin every game that allow them to run wild.

Anyone who doesn't make keeping this kind of trash out of their games a top priority will end the same way so I hope Anet has a better plan for GW2.

StormX · May 04, 2010, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlett Romanov

You know that's bull. Go to Fort Aspenwood. There are botters that have been there since atleast last summer. (A certain elementalist....I'm sure you know who.) He has Dishonorable hexes on him all the time. I've reported him. Others have. I've manually reported him through the ncsoft website. Point is, if they're actually looking at reports, they'd see that this asshat has been labeled a leecher (automatically by the system) and by several players since last year! I'm about 95% sure that reports go directly to limbo.

lol, only 95%? I'm 99.99% certain that bot reports go straight into the trash folder. I'm also certain that they *actually* ban *thousands* of bots each month, none of which I ever see, while old Joe Schmoe who has been RoJ botting in JQ for the past X months or so (and been reported by dozens of other players), happens to slip through the dragnet each time. Yeah I'm sure anet takes botting VRY SRSLY.

Quail Stomp · May 04, 2010, 06:25 AM // 06:25

If they can't do anything about it then should they remove it from the rules of conduct? I don't care about titles or gold, i play this game for fun. I do find pvp more fun than pve just from testing my skills against other players. Thats the main problem for me, i can beat a bot but its not fun and takes away a lot from the game. Yes i know little can and will be done because the game is old.

Missing HB · May 04, 2010, 07:15 AM // 07:15

/signed , but the thing is that , if nothing is done soon , there will be more and more botters . People who keep losing to bots , especially in RA or GvG , looking that nothing is done , will think on starting running it . Then , people who wil lose to them will use it too , etc.. .

I will add that HB was the only arena where there was almost no botters , and where it wasn't a matter for opponents , since they were only resigning in order to decrease rating. But , it was deleted , leading place to an arena where there are ONLY bots . It's not a QQ , but it's nice when you have an arena where you know you won't ruin your time and fun by facing bots , etc...

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 04, 2010, 07:31 AM // 07:31

/Signed, but mainly because of the fact that it goes against the rules and regulations of the game. People have been banned for less (abusive language or scamming as 2 examples) and I dont think a blind eye should be turned here

However

I do believe this is something that should be or at least addressed with GW2. The main thing which I have with it in GW1 is the ones in the PvP area, because it does impact on other players. PvE.... not so much. Yeah, they farm gold and loot, but other than that not much harm (though I still dont support them). However, in GW2 with a persistent world, it will end up affecting both PvP and PvE players, and I hope they have better control over it with that game. Last thing you want is to start out a new toon, regardless if you are noob or vet, and some bot comes through and kills a mob without you getting a shot off (and the experience and loot going with it)

Carma · May 04, 2010, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Now since they haven't done any good in 5 years with this version what makes you think they are going to do any better in GW2. I love these hope and wishes threads because they never qualify anything and deal with delusions that things will get better. The botting issues are one of the major reasons I won't buy into GW2 nor recommend to anyone or that anyone comes back to GW and wastes their money on it.

As long as you have free to play no monthly fee games you will have this kind of riff raff and in hordes just like it is now. Start charging and these botters will disappear rapidly because it eats into their profits.

Unfortunately I'm sure there will be bots in GW2 as well.

But please, the bots are swarming in pretty much every online game including pay to play (not least WoW, LoTR Online etc.).

Just try and google *Insert Game Name Here* + bot and you'll see...

So this is not something I'd adress to Anet but more to the gaming industri as a whole.

Missing HB · May 04, 2010, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Sure , but why then did they remove Heroes from Ha/Gvg , especially because of Tease hero mesmers .
I do not see the problem since bots already existed at that time , and still do now ( and , for having played Hb a lot + using some rupters heroes in pve , i can tell you that they are nothing compared to actual bots ).

Mangione · May 04, 2010, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Here comes the careboat from Anet |______/

I stopped playing when I've had enough of ANet not take seriously its own code of conduct.
What's the point of playing by the rules if they let cheaters get away with it?
Arena.Net doesn't care and won't enforce its own rules.

I remember the days of Red Resigns, which WAS match manipulation.
I remember the days of a notorious guild doing a conga line to manipulate the outcome of a tournament.
Pepole where HFFF botting the kurzick title.
PvX won the "build your henchman" contest.

The RRs were left alone, since they were too high in numbers (not even a two weeks temp ban), the conga guild managed to get away with it with just a slap on the hand (the loss of the gold trim for that tournament).

The HFFF botters weren't punished, even though they knew that botting was against the rules.

The rules of the contest "build the henchman" (or whatever was called) stated that the build submitted had to be somehow "unique", and not be published elsewhere. Yet most of the builds that won were already on PvX... So, why make a contest at all if you are just getting PvX builds? (Again, the players who respected the rules felt somehow screwed).

The only time I remember a good ban for cheating was when they banned 117 players for exploiting a "secret" outpost that gave them the chance to get to Mallyx (and farm him) skipping all the previous areas.

Arena Net doesn't care anymore about Guild Wars.
They are just keeping it on suspended animation as a bridge towards their next product.
I came on the forum after a long time of no playing to see if, after several months of nothing, they were doing something interesting, and been really disappointed. For the 4th birthday the Live Team pulled out Zaishen Menagerie, Zaishen Quests, Nicholas the Traveler, Makeovers, Namechanges, Storage Panes, and much more... this year... /meh, costumes.

I'd say get rid of botters, enforce the rules you made, and swing that damn banhammer.
It doesn't matter the number of cheaters. As long they cheat, they MUST be banned.

GG Anet.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 04, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

I came on the forum after a long time of no playing to see if, after several months of nothing, they were doing something interesting, and been really disappointed. For the 4th birthday the Live Team pulled out Zaishen Menagerie, Zaishen Quests, Nicholas the Traveler, Makeovers, Namechanges, Storage Panes, and much more... this year... /meh, costumes.

While I kinda tend to agree with most of your post, to be fair to Anet this part kinda wasnt their fault. The stuff we are getting (GW Beyond/WiK) had to be delayed due to the illness of the team lead (Lindsey's back playing up, if you haven't bothered reading the other threads). Given the limited numbers on the LT, and Lindsey being the lead, this kind of thing cant be helped.

Mangione · May 04, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

The stuff we are getting (GW Beyond/WiK) had to be delayed due to the illness of the team lead (Lindsey's back playing up, if you haven't bothered reading the other threads). Given the limited numbers on the LT, and Lindsey being the lead, this kind of thing cant be helped.

Oh, I didn't know that.
As I said, I just returned to see what was going around, and just skimmed the update notes, so I did not see that info about Linsey being ill.
If that is so, I wish her to stay well and get back in shape soon.

BTW, I still hope that the delayed content will be up to the content released last year.

tmakinen · May 04, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by merek

look at all the ones (not only W/N but also E/Me) that come into the circle directly in front of the zoning area and then turn immediately around an d go right back outside.. you try and do it.. you can't they are bots

Incorrect. Every farmer worth his/her salt knows how to set the jump point to the nearest exit the way you describe: Go out. Come in. Go out. Farm. /resign. Hit X. Hit R. Repeat from Farm. This has nothing to do with botting.

Concerning OP, I'm rather pessimistic about the prospects of getting rid of bots at this stage of the game.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 04, 2010, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

Oh, I didn't know that.
As I said, I just returned to see what was going around, and just skimmed the update notes, so I did not see that info about Linsey being ill.
If that is so, I wish her to stay well and get back in shape soon.

BTW, I still hope that the delayed content will be up to the content released last year.

I cant remember which thread it was first mentioned in (Regina mentioned it in one of them) but yeah, it has been mentioned in a few, and the GW Beyond stuff will be continued to be rolled out but I dont think it will be a great lump like the anniversary stuff last year, and could end up having more stuff. But all this getting a tad off topic

McMullen · May 04, 2010, 10:38 AM // 10:38

/signed
Some very selfish views here (I don't PvP so I don't care, etc..) but PvP bots do have a knock on effect on PvE since they hoard z-keys. And bots in general will have a knock on effect on GW2 thanks to the HoM.
Also, I'm sure most players who go into a PvP arena want to play with a team of humans against teams of other humans and win based on their skill and knowledge of the game.
Those who just say "abuse their weakness by cancelling skills, etc..", you're really missing the point and the bots have about 5 or more interrupts packed onto their bar and are capable of interrupting 1/4 casts.. so cancelling a key skill 5 times in a row is pretty damn pointless (25 energy WoH GOGOGO!).

If this really can't be fixed by updating the client, then I'd like to see a "Ban-Krewe" who hang around in bot hotspots and have the ability to temp ban bots and send high priority reports to A.Net.

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2010, 10:44 AM // 10:44

This is the most important thing for dev time right now; most if not all of gw1 manpower should have been on this already.

Dzjudz · May 04, 2010, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by merek

Really? look at all the ones (not only W/N but also E/Me) that come into the circle directly in front of the zoning area and then turn immediately around an d go right back outside.. you try and do it.. you can't they are bots msg them see if you can type their name before they go back outside.

Umm, you probably never heard of the zone to resign trick? Zone into the explorable area -> zone into town -> zone into the explorable area -> now every time you resign you will end up at the spot you last entered the town (i.e. right at the portal).

Also, I've had several people msg me asking me if I was a bot, but somehow they never answered if I responded...

But yes, there were many bots during the festival. I mean, just go search for raptor farm bot on youtube and watch a movie or something.

And yes, I'd like to see the botters punished. I farmed my ass off to get 10 stacks of cupcakes and thanks to the botters who put in no effort at all they aren't worth crap anymore.

fowlero · May 04, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by II Lucky Charm II

Energy management is one of the many necessities in PvP play. Bots can not manage their energy mainly because they are pre-programmed to use a certain skill when certain conditions are met. There is no need to double the energy for important skills since most of the important skills already have their own draw back. For example, *psychic distraction* will disable your own skill bar if you happen to miss. Say the mesmer is pre programmed to interrupt Restore condition or word of healing with powerblock, the players can always cancel the 5 energy skill (woh/RC) to put a huge disadvantage on the interrupt bot.

For song of concentration and altar capture map, you can always bring a knock down on your team to KD the interrupt bot so the paragon can put up the song. Everything that exists in this world has a counter. Nothing is perfect and flawless.

Sorry, i didn't make it clear what i meant in my first post. I meant that saying the fact that interupt bots are in fact computer AI scripts and "of course you can just cancel cast" to invalidate them is a really dumb argument for the exact reasons you say.

By saying this "just cancel cast and their at the bots at disadvantage" you're forcing your team to double energy cost of every important skill they use, which while it may work in HA as matches are a lot shorter and hur dur channeling, for monks/midline in GvG it ruins you. As soon as monks take pressure or you have to make a push to correct a mistake etc you just cannot afford the energy to cancel cast, whereupon the bot may well rape you when it lands rupts.

It's much more prevailent in GvG because energy management is harder than in HA, and having to regular cancel your example of WoH/RC will eventually ruin your monks.

Everything in this world has a counter, this does not stop it from being incredibly powerful. So i raise your altar cap of "just KD the interupt bot", with a guardian and one of many teams 2 copies of aura of stability.

tl;dr - Just saying cancel cast vs interuptbots is an extremely asinine argument.

ChaoticCoyote · May 04, 2010, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

As long as Guild Wars has grind, I'm 100% behind bots.

Don't want bots? Stop rewarding players for doing repetitive tasks.

This.

Don't reward bad behavior, and bad behavior will cease. Let's hope ANet understands that in designing GW2...

Hmmm... for the majority of casual players, bots don't really matter. So, are there so many casual and bot players that "serious" gamers aren't a target audience? I know that's why game AI isn't very smart (I've worked for game companies as a programmer/designer) -- make the AI too smart (i.e., challenging), and it chases away the casuals. In the case of bots, why put effort into stopping a behavior that negatively impacts a very tiny portion of the player community?

lishi · May 04, 2010, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMullen

/signed
Some very selfish views here (I don't PvP so I don't care, etc..) but PvP bots do have a knock on effect on PvE since they hoard z-keys. And bots in general will have a knock on effect on GW2 thanks to the HoM.
Also, I'm sure most players who go into a PvP arena want to play with a team of humans against teams of other humans and win based on their skill and knowledge of the game.
Those who just say "abuse their weakness by cancelling skills, etc..", you're really missing the point and the bots have about 5 or more interrupts packed onto their bar and are capable of interrupting 1/4 casts.. so cancelling a key skill 5 times in a row is pretty damn pointless (25 energy WoH GOGOGO!).

If this really can't be fixed by updating the client, then I'd like to see a "Ban-Krewe" who hang around in bot hotspots and have the ability to temp ban bots and send high priority reports to A.Net.

The zkey are the last of your problem.

So far i know you can bot :

luxon title
asura title
wisdom (raptor farm)
treasure hunter (lockpick from raptor)
party (from money and drop)
sweet (same)
codex title

Of course the amount of gold that will provide will make other title easier to get.

Essence Snow · May 04, 2010, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

PvX won the "build your henchman" contest.

The rules of the contest "build the henchman" (or whatever was called) stated that the build submitted had to be somehow "unique", and not be published elsewhere. Yet most of the builds that won were already on PvX... So, why make a contest at all if you are just getting PvX builds? (Again, the players who respected the rules felt somehow screwed).

GG Anet.

This bothered me more so than most of the others. How many ppl would have copy pasted if they had known you could violate the rules and win. Now we have a constant reminder of some cheaters in our guild halls. To quote you a second time "GG Anet".